Referrals Without Asking Featuring Stacey Brown Randall




Joanne Bolt: All right. Hey everyone. Welcome back to The B-Word with me, Joanne Bolt. And today I've brought on one of those women in my life that, you know how sometimes you just meet people and you connect, and you don't have to be in the same city all the time. Hell, you don't even have to talk all the time. But when you do, it's like you found your soul sister, and you just know it's going to be an easy conversation. That is how Stacey Brown-Randall is for me.

For one thing, our hearts just align on the concept of referrals. She is your go-to for learning how the heck to work them and understand them. But overall, she's just an amazing, amazing human being. And I know you guys are going to enjoy this conversation today that we're going to be going through. Let me give you a little bit of background, and I'll put everything in the show notes though. Stacey is also a host of a podcast called Roadmap To Grow Your Business, because boy, does she know how to grow your business. And author of one of my favorite books, Generating Business Referrals Without Asking. I think, correct me if I'm wrong, I think I have it in print, Audible, and Kindle.

Stacey Brown-Ra...: Yep. All three.

Joanne Bolt: All the places.

Stacey Brown-Ra...: All the places.

Joanne Bolt: So every time I need to reference something, I know I can find it. So, can I drop a little truth bomb, that you might be writing another book?

Stacey Brown-Ra...: It is a truth bomb.

Joanne Bolt: Now it's live, and you have to.

Stacey Brown-Ra...: So no, actually it's... I have to finish it. That's been the running joke, is that this is the book that should have been finished in 2020. And what year is it? 2022, I think.

Joanne Bolt: 2022 maybe? So, it's like the book that keeps on giving.

Stacey Brown-Ra...: Is the book that keeps on stressing.

Joanne Bolt: Oh, I like that. Okay.

Stacey Brown-Ra...: I told somebody the other day, they're like, "Have you finished book number two yet?" I'm like, "No, I need to finish it so I can stop stressing about finishing it, and publishing it." And then I can start stressing about promoting it, and selling it, and trying to get it to win some awards. It's like the stress doesn't end.

Joanne Bolt: So another friend of mine, Claire Brown wrote a book, Ring or Fling, and only had it in print. And I was driving her... and on Kindle. And I was driving her crazy. I'm like, "Girl, I listen to everything in the car. I don't listen to music. Can you please put this crap on Audible?" And I drove her nuts for so long. She finally recorded it for Audible. So you know what, Stacey? Sorry, not sorry. You're about to hear from me on the regular basis. "Girl, can you finish the next book, because I need it in my life."

Stacey Brown-Ra...: Oh my gosh. That's so funny. And let me tell you, I feel Claire's pain, because recording my book, I was like, "Oh, it's not that long. It won't take that long to record it." Oh my gosh. That's almost as long as writing the thing.

Joanne Bolt: Oh. I [inaudible 00:02:41].

Stacey Brown-Ra...: It's a process. It's all a process. All of it's process. Just so [inaudible 00:02:43].

Joanne Bolt: So when you start reading it for Audible, do you then start adding stuff in and going off on... That's what Claire said she did.

Stacey Brown-Ra...: Yes. That's the fun part. And I didn't... To be honest, I'm not 100% a rule follower, but there are times where I will follow the rules, because that's what you're supposed to do. And so even though my referral strategy, right, doesn't follow any of the rules.

Joanne Bolt: Which is why it's great.

Stacey Brown-Ra...: But when it came...thank you. Which is, when it came time to record the book I was like, "Can I go off script?" And I heard another author's Audible book, and he had gone off script. And people were like, "That's what makes the book better."

Joanne Bolt: Oh, absolutely.

Stacey Brown-Ra...: I'm like, "I'm so going off script." Because I do try to be... I am sarcastic. I try to be charming with my sarcasm. So you know, it doesn't rub people completely the wrong way. And that's a lot in the book, because, I can, so I did.

Joanne Bolt: Stacey, I think some of the beauty of you, and maybe I can say this, because I'm the same way, we might rub people the wrong way, but snarky is acceptable in the book, because it's how you are in real life. So you might as well show up in the book, how you do in real life.

Stacey Brown-Ra...: So true. So very true.

Joanne Bolt: So let's dive into today's episode. You are coming to join us in Nashville for the Work, Play, Slay Event. I am so stoked over this. Keynote speaker, and one of the topics you're going to dive into, of course, is referrals and how to build them. And one of my favorite things that you really point out to business owners, and especially real estate agents, because I think, quite frankly, they may be the worst at this, is knowing and understanding who is actually a referral in your database, versus someone that you think is a referral. So I will hand it over to you now.

Stacey Brown-Ra...: You know, here's the one thing I want to say for all the agents watching this, and they're thinking like, "Yeah, that database that I have is kind of a mess." I really always like to say, because I work with so many agents. I always say, because I've heard their stories. I'm like, "It's not really your fault." The truth is, that's how the industry has been teaching the database for decades.

Joanne Bolt: It's so antiquated.

Stacey Brown-Ra...: Decades and decades. I have an agent that's with Keller Williams, that's out on the West Coast, and she's been an agent for 30 years. And so she has done it the way that they've taught it for forever. Right? And she's like, the first time she heard me describe what a referral source is, and then how you put it correctly in your database, she was like, "Oh my gosh, I can't believe it's so obvious, yet I've been doing it so wrong." And I remember saying, "Diane, it's not your fault. This is how you've been taught. And you've been following the trainings that have come out from the industry for decades." And I just think the database piece is a piece that needs an overhaul when it comes to how people think about it.

Joanne Bolt: Well, I mean they start out, and they get panicked over the word database. Just off the top.

Stacey Brown-Ra...: Right.

Joanne Bolt: I think if you ask most entrepreneurs, honestly, "Do you have a database?" Their first question I always get asked is, "Well, which one should I use?" And they hate that generic answer. "The one you'll actually use." But it really is true, because if you don't set it up to where it works for you, it's really pointless to have.

Stacey Brown-Ra...: Well, and think about this. I think about some of the top industries that I work in. So obviously real estate agents being one of my top industries, but also financial advisors, attorneys, and interior designers. Okay. So you would think four pretty different type industries. And then I think of all the other industries, I've actually... That I work in as well, that I have clients in. None of them talk about database the way agents in the industry talk about a database.

I have a database, right? I've got thousands and thousands of people in my database. I don't even call it a database. The way that agents talk about a database like is that database... I think the way it's talked about in real estate, it's like your ride or die. Right? Like you guys have that database, but then yet we don't always teach that functioning database. And so then you get in the industry. Right? And you're like, Just put everybody you know in the database, and then flag everybody you know as a client. [inaudible 00:06:37].

Joanne Bolt: Oh, yeah. They tell you on day one, put a hundred people in your database. And most people turn around and go, "I don't even know a hundred people."

Stacey Brown-Ra...: Right.

Joanne Bolt: You know, or I have to think through, "How do I know a hundred people?"

Stacey Brown-Ra...: Right. And then I figured out which database I'm going to put these a hundred people into, and then it's the question of, "Well, what do I do with them?"

Joanne Bolt: Yeah. They don't have a good relationship with it at all.

Stacey Brown-Ra...: They don't. And then everything's so generic after that. Well, just stay in touch with them, send them a newsletter. Do some pop-bys, do some drive-bys, or run a contest and have them all... It's like, "Oh, that's not what your people want from you."

Joanne Bolt: No. Would you want it from someone? Don't do it to them.

Stacey Brown-Ra...: Oh, so true. And then that golden rule, right? Golden rule, treat others...

Joanne Bolt: Do unto others as you would have them do unto you? My mama taught me that when I was four years old.

Stacey Brown-Ra...: Yes.

Joanne Bolt: If not younger, but that's the first time I can remember it. It has served me well in personal and business life.

Stacey Brown-Ra...: And I don't know why it gets so messed up in the real estate world. Like I don't know why it goes out the window, but the truth is... It's because it's an industry you go into where it's all commission.

Joanne Bolt: Yeah.

Stacey Brown-Ra...: And let's be honest. That's what drives a lot of the anxiety, of course, but also that anticipation to get it started. To get it going. Because I'm not going to make any money usually, right, unless I get it going. And so the strategies and tactics that have been like that forever, they're just... But they don't actually work the way people want them to, and then they have to figure it out. Right?

Joanne Bolt: Right.

Stacey Brown-Ra...: Or they find someone like you, and they're like, "Okay, let me figure this out and work this smartly, not just work it for the sake of working it."

Joanne Bolt: I mean, I can't tell you how many times I rebuilt my database, because... I love my database. I call it my email list. I try not to just call it database, but it is my communication with the outside world. And for every season of my career, I have really sat down and reworked it. Because the way I utilized it as a new agent, and the way I utilized it once I was about three years in, and the way I utilize it today, are completely different.

Stacey Brown-Ra...: Right.

Joanne Bolt: And so I would be that agent who, come January, I'd be heads down in the database going, "Nope, we're going to ditch all these tags, redo this. This is how we're going to look at these referrals. This is...". I mean, yeah, I was that... I'm a geek.

Stacey Brown-Ra...: Well, you're the person who will actually do it. Right? I mean, think about how many agents that are like, "I should do it. One day I'm going to get around to doing it." And then the database grows and grows and grows. And then all of a sudden they've got hundreds, if not thousands, of people in their database, and they're like, "Oh yeah." Now it feels like this hill to climb.

But you know, the reality of it is, there's some simple things that people should be paying attention to doing when it comes to the referral part of their database. Right. So that's what I'll speak to. I know there are... You have all the other brilliance when it comes to how people should be using that database.

Joanne Bolt: No I don't.

Stacey Brown-Ra...: But for all the other things... But from my perspective, what I always teach is, you got to be locked and loaded with the referral side of your business.

And here's the two key things everybody should be able to tell me within their database, maybe three. But the two main key things are: how many referral sources do I have? Which means they have to be tagged correctly. And to be defined as a referral source, or maybe you call them a referral partner, or... And this is not an SOI, right? This is not a COI, center of influence, or an SOI, sphere of influence. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about one layer, more defined. To be defined as a referral source, they have to have referred you a potential client. Not somebody who necessarily had to turn into a client, but they had to refer you a potential client. Hopefully they did turn into a client, and that's the...

Joanne Bolt: And not someone who told you they would refer you, but never did.

Stacey Brown-Ra...: Right? No, no. Yeah. No. They have to actually refer you. That is the firm definition. There is no change in it. There is no, but, but what if.

Joanne Bolt: But they said... But they're going to. Yeah. You know, every agent listening to this just kind of went, "Ooh." Like that, like guilty, guilty. You're all guilty.

Stacey Brown-Ra...: Well, they're going to get a little bit more of that then. When we're together in Nashville, they're going to get a little bit more of like, "I'm going to feel icky through most of Stacey's presentation." You won't. I promise you'll feel real good. But I think the thing to consider is, that number one thing is, how many people are in your database, are tagged as a referral source? Meaning how many people do you have that are actually referring you? Now I teach my folks to go a little deeper, in terms of then who's active, and who's inactive. We define active as, they've referred you in the past two years, and inactive as they've referred you, and it's been more than two years, right? Since they've referred you. Because the truth is how you take care of an inactive referral source, and try to reengage with them, will look different than what you're going to do with an active referral source.

Joanne Bolt: Yeah.

Stacey Brown-Ra...: And so that's the first key thing. I want people to be able to look in your database and I want you to be able to tell me, this is how many referral sources I have, because I have them tagged. The second thing is something people don't usually think about. The second thing I want your database to be able to tell me is, I want your database to tell me how many clients you have that actually came by referral.

Joanne Bolt: Ooh.

Stacey Brown-Ra...: So how many clients do you actually have in your database that were referred to you? Because... Not only because it makes you feel good to know, "Wow. Look at all these clients that were referred to me. I feel so special."

Joanne Bolt: Yeah.

Stacey Brown-Ra...: Because that's what referrals do. But more importantly than making you feel good, is the idea that referred clients are typically easier to turn into, and cultivate into, referral sources. The strategies that I teach to my clients in some of my programs, they're, I'm just like, "Oh my God, this is so much easier," when it's somebody who's been referred, versus somebody who found you through social media, or Facebook ad, or walked into an open house, or happened to respond to you farming the neighborhood, right? It's just so much easier to get a person who's been referred to you to consider referring, well before somebody who didn't come through a referral, and they found you in a different methodology, or a different method.

And so those are the two things that people should be like, "Yes I have." I'm going to use of round numbers. You know me, I don't like to do public math. I'm going to use some very generic, simple numbers. I'm sure everybody has, like, "This is really slow Stacey. I've got way more business than this." But let's just say, for sake of argument, you have 50 clients in your database. You've been in business, I don't know, three years. And you've done 50 deals. Would that be considered a pretty good three years if you did 50 deals, or is that...

Joanne Bolt: Oh, I would sure be sure 90% of the real estate agents in the world, that is incredible.

Stacey Brown-Ra...: Okay.

Joanne Bolt: Honestly, NAR statistics say most agents do between six and eight a year.

Stacey Brown-Ra...: So let's make it even easier. You got 50 clients, you've been in business five years. You did 10 deals a year. Right?

Joanne Bolt: Okay.

Stacey Brown-Ra...: If you're thinking about it in that way, right? I want you to be able to tell me of those 50 clients, 32 of them were referred to me, and here's who referred them to me. That is important data you need to have. Now, if you want the gold star though, you got to go back one more layer. And you got to say of those 50 clients that I've brought in over the last five years, that I've helped them buy or sell a home, I also have these other 50 people that I talked to, but the timing wasn't right. Or they decided not to move. Or the job fell through, so they didn't need to relocate, or whatever. They went with another agent, shame on them.

Right? Whatever it is. I've got these other 50 people that I talked to that didn't become clients. And I know that 25 of those were referred to me, and I know who referred them to me. It's easy in your... If your database is, if you do this in your database. If you actually input the data. Remember, garbage in, garbage out, right? So if you want good stuff coming out of your database, you've got to put good stuff in.

If you're tagging people as, "Yes, this is a prospect, and they were referred to me by this person." And then that just tracks along. You should be able to extract that information pretty easily. You should be able to look at it and be like, "Hey, here's everybody who's referred me over the last two years. And here's whether or not that person became a client or not." Because here's another thing people miss, referring you somebody is about the action of putting their reputation on the line, and deciding to refer you. Not because that person ultimately became a client. We reward the behavior, right? We want to be tagging and tracking the behavior of referring you, right? Not the fact of the outcome that they close into a client. So where you start tagging, it starts at the prospect level.

Joanne Bolt: Okay. So I'm going to interrupt you really fast, because that is so key to understanding. And I want to just take a second, and make sure everyone hones in on... One of the things Stacey just said was, "We reward the action of the person referring us, not whether we actually land the referral or not." And here's, for so many reasons, why that's important, but because of RESPA, RESPA says you can't pay clients to be your client. Right? And so if, in part of your strategy is to reward someone, maybe hand them a $5 Starbucks gift card. Maybe you just take them out for a happy hour cocktail, that can be considered paying for clients. And so you have to be very careful, and I'm not an attorney, so seek advice out before you really develop your referral strategy, if you're going to give stuff out.

But the basics of it, that I've always understood is, you have to, if you're going to choose to reward an action, you have to be consistent to do it every single time, and not just when that client becomes... Or that referral becomes a client. But you have to do it when they give the name out, as a thank you.

Stacey Brown-Ra...: Yeah. And so, and let me redefine...

Joanne Bolt: [inaudible 00:16:13].

Stacey Brown-Ra...: Let me redefine reward, right?

Joanne Bolt: Yeah.

Stacey Brown-Ra...: Because it doesn't necessarily [inaudible 00:16:17].

Joanne Bolt: I just know where a lot of agents went to, and they thought, "Ooh."

Stacey Brown-Ra...: Right. Okay. So I always say it's about, yeah. And we do use that language some. It's about rewarding the behavior, the action of referring, and not the outcome of what happens. But reward, put some big fat air quotes around the word reward. Because I have a lot of people... Think about the financial advisors that I work with. They can't spend so much money. Right? There's a limit that they can spend per person. Same thing with agents, right? With what you guys have as your qualifications of what you guys can do. You've got to take money off the table.

Joanne Bolt: Thank you. I agree.

Stacey Brown-Ra...: What people don't... When I say reward, I really mean how you thank, and show gratitude, and appreciate somebody for the act of referring you. And that comes in a lot of different forms. And it doesn't have to come in a monetary form. I'm not saying you can't, right? But actually one of two things that drive me crazy when agents are saying, "Thank you for referring me," to whoever this prospect is, right? When they're saying... This is the two questions I get all the time from agents. Can I include a business card, and how much should my gift card be? And I'm like, "No, to both."

Joanne Bolt: Oh, I agree.

Stacey Brown-Ra...: No. Do not include a business card when you are sending a thank you note to somebody who just referred you. Because you just took that thank you, and made it salesy. Don't do that.

Joanne Bolt: Yep. Yep.

Stacey Brown-Ra...: And if you're really worried that they won't know who the thank you card is from, put your information on the back of the card. Just don't put the business card in there. And number two is, don't include a gift card. Because the reality of it is, you're basically saying... People construe it as, "Oh, I got a $5 gift card because I referred someone to them." But in reality, that's not what you're trying to construe. It's not $5. You're trying... That's not what you want them to think. What you want them to think is, "I really appreciate you. Thank you for taking the time to trust me." Right? And send this person to me. You want them to feel the gratitude of it, and you don't want them to automatically in their mind equate that to $5 of something.

Joanne Bolt: Thank you for pointing that difference out. Because I think that's one that we need to preach from the high heavens is, stopping the concept that a reward needs to be a monetary gift.

Stacey Brown-Ra...: Yeah. We teach in our programs, variety is the spice of life, right? There's this idea... So the way that our referral strategy works, and this is one thing we are going to dig into a lot in Nashville. So everybody watching should definitely come. But one of the things that I teach about, that makes my referral strategy different, and probably different than any of the other agent trainers that are out there talking about referrals, is that mine's all based on the science behind why referrals happen, and then how you can actually have them happen for you in your business, naturally. Which means you're not manipulating, you're not compensating, and you're not even asking. And so what that means is we got to really understand the science. And there's a brain piece to it, right? Of what's triggered when we are actually giving referrals. And there is this whole concept of the psychology piece, and that comes with trust, and your social networks.

And then there's this other whole component of behavioral economics that comes into play as well. One piece of behavioral economics is the surprise and delight factor. And so when we talk about variety is the spice of life, and you want that surprise and delight factor, the idea of this is how I'm going to take care of my referral sources, is not going to look the same way every single time. Well, what that means is, if you're doing where you send someone a card that you don't even sign, every single month, and you think that's how you're keeping in touch, and keeping those referrals coming in. Or your newsletter that you send out that sometimes gets opened. And lots of times doesn't get opened. Even if they do adore you, right?

Those things are the things that people think are what, "Oh, I'm staying in front of them. I'm keeping in touch." You've got to do more than that, but you actually have to do less of it. You just got to make it better, when you do it. And if I just said, "You don't have to be spending a bunch of money on it." Right? Then really when we think about what this looks like, it is honing into who our referral sources are, and then figuring out what would connect best with them. While always sticking to the fact that this is about us showing our gratitude and our thankfulness, which allows us to impact how they feel about us. Like, 'Oh right. I love Joanne. She's so good to me. That's so sweet that she sent X, Y, Z.", Right? And then once you've got me thinking, and I'm impacted, in terms of how I feel about you, then you get to direct how I think about you.

And that's when we take the what we do, and the what we say, as we're taking care of our referral sources, and make it to where there is that variety of what we're doing. We're not doing it that many times a year, like five, six, maybe seven touch points in a year. And then you're coming from a place of gratitude and thankfulness, but using the right language. So we'll unpack all of this more when we get to Nashville in September.

Joanne Bolt: I don't even know how we're going to do all this in an hour.

Stacey Brown-Ra...: I know. Why didn't we get a four hour keynote?"

Joanne Bolt: You know, maybe we should. We should just put you on stage for half the morning. And everybody else gets 30 minutes. Because really...

Stacey Brown-Ra...: Everybody else is just like, I got annoyed with me. They're like, "I wanted four hours too." All your other speakers are going to want four hours too.

Joanne Bolt: But the truth of it is, without solid referral strategy nailed down, I mean, half of the rest of the stuff we do in our business is useless.

Stacey Brown-Ra...: Gosh, it's so true. I've got an agent that I work with, that's out in Kansas, and her name's Melissa. And she's incredible. And she does a lot of different things to grow her business. But the one thing she always comes back to, is the closing ratio of the clients that are referred to her, versus some of the other stuff that she does. And I remember it was first quarter, and she sent me an email and she was like, "Okay, I closed..." She got 17 referrals in one quarter. She closed 11 of them. And I just like to say that the quarter is three months. So let's not forget that. So she got 17 referrals in one quarter. She closed 11 of them. And it was... I don't even remember the amount now that it was worth in commission, but it was like $75,000, or maybe my numbers are off, and maybe it's higher than that. It was definitely not less than that.

But I was like, "That's crazy." Right? When you think about one quarter, she didn't work very hard for those 17 referrals to show up. Of the 17, 11 were the right fit that she would move forward with. And she did, because they were referred to her. And then she almost... I believe she got pretty close to making $100,000 on it. In a quarter.

Joanne Bolt: Easy. So one year, I think it was 2018, my team and I started very, very specifically tracking, not only all the referrals, and where they came from, but when we went on the listing appointment, very specifically, we tracked listing appointments that came from anything other than a referral source, or listing appointments that came from a referral source. One that we had defined as a team, "Yes. These people routinely give us referrals. This is a source." 100% of the appointments we went on that came from a solid referral source, we took the listing.

Stacey Brown-Ra...: Yep.

Joanne Bolt: Now we had a really good number on the rest of them, but it was not 100%. And so that was when some of my team members started shifting their mindset. Because you know, they all came into the team. They were like, "Oh, can you buy us leads? Can you do this? Can you do that? We want that." What they perceive is the easy button. And I'm like, "Okay, but you can get an OpCity lead, and you might have to return that phone call 15 times before they actually stop treating you a spammer calling them back. Or you might have to drive them crazy before they become a client. Or you can make 15 phone calls to your sources, and they will give you... something will come out of that 15 phone calls. They're a lot easier to make, because you like talking your referral sources, and you'll go on an appointment that you're almost guaranteed to land." You do the math.

Stacey Brown-Ra...: I mean, you know what's so crazy? There's not one single person that is listening to this, that doesn't nod their head and say, "Yeah, totally." Do the math. It's totally easier. And then yet we get stuck with taking that action. And I think that's part of the part of how referrals and the old school, or the traditional approach of referrals has kind of been beating real estate agents over the head.

Joanne Bolt: Yeah.

Stacey Brown-Ra...: With this traditional, old school approach. Because you make the point like, "Oh, I'm going to have to do some outreach to my referral sources." And then it kind of brings up all these anxiety moments, of all the things that could happen. And it just allows us to question ourselves. And in reality, if you have the right understanding of what that outreach to your referral sources is ultimately supposed to look like, then you'll be like, "I can do this all day long."

Joanne Bolt: Yeah.

Stacey Brown-Ra...: And one of the strategies we teach is like, when you have people who've never referred you, you can't treat them like they're referral sources. But you can treat them like soon-to-be referral sources, or potential referral sources. And we teach a specific strategy that shows you how to cultivate those folks, and do the followup with those folks, where they'll actually start referring you. And you know what the heart of that entire strategy is? Without going into too much detail. Because we don't have time, but the heart of that strategy is you taking care of them.

Joanne Bolt: Ooh.

Stacey Brown-Ra...: Imagine that. Imagine showing up to a coffee meeting and not talking about the market.

Joanne Bolt: Oh my God.

Stacey Brown-Ra...: You're not talking about the fact that you could really use some deals, because you've got three closings this month and a big fat goose egg for next month. Right? Imagine showing up to those meetings, and knowing that it's going to be all about them. Because what actually endears me to you, is how I feel about you. Which means what are you doing for me.

Joanne Bolt: Yeah.

Stacey Brown-Ra...: And I don't mean the fact that you sent me a bag of Goldfish, with a little tag on it that says, "I'm fishing for your referrals." Don't do that.

Joanne Bolt: [inaudible 00:26:15]. Can we all agree that crap needs to go away?

Stacey Brown-Ra...: Oh my gosh. It is all over some Pinterest. I tell you what, like it is.

Joanne Bolt: I mean, I get it, but...

Stacey Brown-Ra...: I know it's just gimmicky. Here's the thing. I know people that actually are okay with doing those gimmicky, very promotional things. And I'm always like, "You do you." If it's working, I am not going to stand in the way of you making money. But I bet it's not working. And I bet that a lot of people who are receiving it are actually turned off by it.

Joanne Bolt: Yeah.

Stacey Brown-Ra...: And that actually short... It's like asking people for referrals that, if they're turned off by it, that actually shortcut, or short changes, what they'll ultimately give you in terms of referrals in the future. It cuts it off at the knees. And so that's why your strategy has to be really, really respectful of the people on the other side, which are your referral sources, which are humans. And so a lot of what I teach is just flipping it. It's common sense when you see it flipped, in terms of what we do for our referral sources. But most folks are like, "I never would've thought about that." I'm like, "No, because everybody else teaches you that referrals are about you, and you need to go out there and just get them." Referrals aren't about you. They're about a referral source, helping somebody who needs an agent. And they want you to be that agent they're going to refer them to. What you can work through in that process, is towards your referral sources, that relationship. It's not about anything else.

Joanne Bolt: Yeah. So I kind of touched on this in episode 49, which is where we started this entire referral series on the podcast. But the concept that you are being referred, not because someone wants to help you as an agent, honestly. You're being referred because there's a pain point of one of their friends. One of their friends, colleagues, associates, said, "Oh my gosh, I'm going to sell my home." And being the good friend, someone went, "Well, I know the perfect agent to help you with that pain point." Now they may not acknowledge in their brain it's a pain point, but that is actually what they're doing. They're helping their friend. They're not helping you as the agent.

Stacey Brown-Ra...: Yep.

Joanne Bolt: Nine times out of 10, or maybe 99% out of 100, you're not getting a referral because I looked around and went, "Oh my God, I should help Stacey out. I'm going to send Stacey some business." No, I love you girl. But when I'm working with another agent, or someone in the industry, and I'm coaching them, and I'm like, really, you need to nail down this referral process because they can't figure it out. I send them to someone like you. Right? It's the same concept in any business. You're getting it because of the person's pain.

Stacey Brown-Ra...: Yeah. And here's the hard thing, I think, for people to wrap their mind around. Because we've been taught for so long, if we want referrals, just go ask. Right? So we're taught that referrals happen on a trigger. I mean, to be honest, everything in life happens on a trigger. You get out of bed because either your internal clock triggers you awake, or the alarm clock triggers you awake, right? Everything, even in sales, even in referrals, happens on a trigger. The problem is that what has been taught in the industry for generations, not even decades, but generations, is that referrals are triggered by an action you take consistently. Like asking, or reminding people that you pay, or making sure you're being promotional and gimmicky and doing like the bag of Goldfish. Right? Kind of gimmicky stuff. But the truth is, that's actually not where the trigger starts with a referral.

The trigger starts exactly, as you said. It's that I know somebody has a problem, now who am I going to connect them with to solve the problem? The person's pain, who hopefully will soon be your new client, their pain is the ultimate trigger. So what you influence in that process, is your relationship with the referral source. So that when the pain is triggered in their friend, you're the only person they think of. And that is what you can control in referrals too, is that relationship you have with your referral sources. And yes, there's a whole language piece to this that helps you. Like what to say when you're meeting with that referred prospect. And what do you say to your referral sources when you're not getting the right quality type clients that you want, that allows you to kind of massage, I guess, that relationship you have with your referral source. And to make sure you're closing more of your referred prospects.

But all of that is secondary to this understanding, and the underlying heart of referrals, is it's about your relationship with your referral source. Because they know who the client, your next client, potentially is. And that's what you have to always remember. Which means, referral strategies, where they can be successful really fast. Most of them take a little bit of time to build.

Joanne Bolt: Okay. So I know we're running short on time. Because we try to keep these really, really quick. But in Nashville, at Work, Play, Slay, you're going to actually have a interactive keynote. Which I love this, because it's not just being preached to from the stage. What are you asking ahead of time for our agents, or our women in the business that are coming to this? Because we've got people coming that aren't just real estate agents, you know?

Stacey Brown-Ra...: Yay!

Joanne Bolt: We've got professional women, entrepreneurs, that understand this concept. So, I know we've got some homework ahead of time for them, and we'll be sending it out, email. But just to let the audience know kind of what to expect from this keynote, what are we looking at?

Stacey Brown-Ra...: Yeah. So here's the thing. Because you didn't give me unlimited time to hang with your people, I have to keep...

Joanne Bolt: I'll fix this mistake at a future time. I promise. I'm already...

Stacey Brown-Ra...: I asked...

Joanne Bolt: I have our Chick Click Mastermind, which is for our, like the next level of professionals in our world. It's not that newbie entry. It's that super big mastermind growth moment. I'm thinking we may have to bring you in for one of those.

Stacey Brown-Ra...: Oh, well, let's talk, I love talking this stuff, you know it. So, but for Nashville, to maximize our time together, there is one exercise I would love everyone to complete. And so you'll be able to send out to all the attendees. It's a worksheet that they need to complete, and a video that tells them, and me walking them through how to complete it. So there's no excuses. Show up in Nashville with your work done, people.

And it's really important that you're going to be identifying actually who your referral sources are. Because when we dig into building out referral plans, and understanding the different referral strategies, and which one do you need to start with, and what do they look like? You have to know who your referral sources are. So it's best if you've just come to Nashville with that information already locked and loaded. So that we can really dig in to who those people are.

And ultimately what that looks like to take care of them. And that will allow us to maximize our time together. And it is, for those of you who have the crazy, messy database, this may take you a little bit of time. So you may need some extra time to do it, which is why we're sending it out in advance. And that's not to say you can't enjoy the keynote, and get all the stuff out of it that you need, if you don't have the pre-work done. I mean, I know. Life happens. I've got three kids. Every day's [inaudible 00:33:00].

Joanne Bolt: Or, if you don't really have a database yet, because you're new in the business. It's okay.

Stacey Brown-Ra...: We're going to handle that too. If you don't have a database, we're going to talk about that as well.

Joanne Bolt: Oh and good news. You'll get to start yours right, from the get-go, instead of having to redo it.

Stacey Brown-Ra...: So, so much better. We'll talk about how we... What the labeling piece, from my world, from a referral world, should ultimately look like. But here's the thing. If you don't get it done, or you don't... Right, you do it, and you're like, "Wow, there's not a lot there." Don't worry. We've got all that covered in the conversation that we're going to have. But knowing who these people are, when I start talking about things to do, you're going to be able to be like, "Oh I get it. Because I can see these names in black and white. They're in writing. They're right in front of me. I get it. That makes so much sense."

Joanne Bolt: I love it. I cannot wait. I think it's going to be just one of the most amazing mornings ever. So, all right, for everyone listening in, how do they get ahold of you? Where can they find you? I know we're going to put a bunch of stuff in the show links, but a lot of times people watch it on YouTube. Or, they're watching it live in the Real Boss Women's private Facebook community. They're not on Apple, clicking the links. So tell everyone how to get ahold of you, if they just want to know more ahead of time, or after, about your programs.

Stacey Brown-Ra...: Yeah. So we put everything out there. We're like, "Here's how you work with us. Here's what our philosophy is." Everything is there for you to... Full transparency for you to go through it and check it out. And it's all on our homepage. That's our home base, our website, it's If you don't go to that page, when you type in my name, you've probably spelled Stacey wrong, because Stacey has an E, but just go to

We have a link in that page. You'll see it in the header, or just straight to It is our freebie page. And we break that page down. If, as a newbie, you've been in business less than two years, or advanced, you've been in business more than two years. And the resources on that page are specifically designed for how long you've been in business, because that typically correlates to how many referral sources you have, and what strategies you need to start with. So there's a lot of great resources on that freebies page. But everything can be found from, on the website, and even information about our programs are right there. On the homepage for you to check out, to decide if you want to take the next step.

Joanne Bolt: Awesome. And we will have this up on the Real Boss Women's podcast page as well with all of her links in case you don't know how to spell Stacey. It Happens. Although I will admit what I often spell wrong on your name is Randall. I don't know why I can't get...

Stacey Brown-Ra...: Right. It's a double whammy.

Joanne Bolt: I'm like, "This has got to be wrong." And I double check myself every time.

Stacey Brown-Ra...: And you know, what's funny? The double whammy of the misspellings happen on two parts of my name that I don't get to control.

Joanne Bolt: That's right.

Stacey Brown-Ra...: Because I didn't name myself, and that's my husband's last name. So just is what it is.

Joanne Bolt: It is what it is. Okay. So if you were as energized by this conversation as I was, and I know that you are, but you haven't grabbed your seat yet to Work, Play, Slay, umm, hello! What in the holy fork and shirt balls are you waiting for? Because we are limiting this event to a hundred women. So we're not talking about a conference with thousands of people where you're sitting in the very back and you can't read the screen and you can barely hear what in the heck Stacey's talking about. We're talking up-close, personal, raise your hand during the keynotes. There's going to be question and answer time on all of our speakers.

So this is your chance to really pour into your business. We're kind of wrapping up 2022 folks. I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news, if you haven't figured that out. Everything is done in quarters, and you should be working a full quarter in advance. So what you're doing right now in your business affects January, February, and March 2023. And if you want to start off strong, you need to end with a bang. So we will see you guys in Nashville, and Stacey, I'll be taking you out for a cocktail the night before.

Stacey Brown-Ra...: Yeah. I can't wait. I'll be there working on my book in advance, and then I'll show up for my keynote and all that.

Joanne Bolt: That's right. Pool side. All Right. Thanks guys.